Yes of course, I see your point Barry. I cannot for the life of me understand why these things cannot be much more standardised though. Same goes for cashpoints too. Ray Personal emails: Email me at mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry" <bbinc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:51 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: chip and PIN Hi Ray Perhaps the reason you cannot understand why people can't get used to it is that you have not come across any problem keypads or unhelpful staff... yet. Now that I know that there is no standard keypad, I have a standard operating patter that would be unnecessary if the keypads were standardised and had an audible beep. For me, there is little difference in asking "Where do I sign?" and asking "Where is the number one" and "Tell me when it's ready". Barry H ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:35 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: chip and PIN I'd like to endorce the Marks & Spencer keypads. By far the best I've come across, with notably larger keys than the rest of them, with a propper guard round the device. I certainly cannot see the display but I've always been told by the till person when to enter my number without asking, so that's never raised a problem for me. I find it very hard to understand why some cannot get used to it, but strangely it does seem to disconfort some people. Ray Personal emails: Email me at mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx ----- Original Message ----- From: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 1:23 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: chip and PIN Hi George, As others on the list have said, there is some variation in the lay-out of different keypads. However, I've not yet found one without a raised mark on the five button. Although, as I said earlier, I have a small amount of sight, I rely entirely on touch for using the C&P pads. One other inconsistency I've noted is that on some systems, notably the one in Marks & Spencer, there is a beep at the point at which you're asked to enter your PIN. Others don't have this. -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of George Bell Sent: 04 April 2005 12:54 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: chip and PIN Hi Derek, You've hit the nail on the head with that analogy of using a telephone. I've been specifically looking at many different machines, and in common with telephones I've seen, all have a raised dot on the number 5 key. So what's the real problem? George. > -----Original Message----- > From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Derek Hornby > Sent: 04 April 2005 12:44 > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [access-uk] chip and PIN > > Hi Steve > >I believe that if people see there is an accessible site, they > >sometimes assume that the main site isn't accessible, or is less > >accessible, which > is > > a logical assumption, because they then wonder why an > accessible site > > was needed at all, if the main site is less accessible. > > Isn't that same sort of thinking with chip and PIN! > > RNIB campaigns for chip and signature, with reason that not > all the blind visually impaired are able to use chip and PIN. > However, the reasoning is surly flawed because those that > claim unable to use a key pad, how many of those are able to > use a telephone? > The point being if one is able to use telephone then one > must be able to use a key pad. > > I suggest the learning of layout for chip and PIN key pad, > is easy if one already knows the layout for a telephone buttons! > > Of course there will be people blind visually impaired that > simply don't want to use chip and PIN, but that's just as > true for sighted people. > > What do others think, is chip and PIN really and truly > difficult to use for those with little or no sight? > Regards, > Derek > > e-mail: derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ** and in the Subject line type > ** unsubscribe > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > ** immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > ** or send a message, to > ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > > This Message has been scanned for viruses by McAfee Groupshield. ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. 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