[projectaon] Re: Flowcharts
- From: David Kubečka <davidkubecka@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 09:52:53 +0100
I have by mistake used my adress not subscribed to this mailing list. You
should still get my email because it appeared on a list archive.
Sorry for confusion (if any)...
David
2012/11/23 David Kubečka <kubecka.dav@xxxxxxxxx>
> And here is the promised flowchart...
>
>
>
> 2012/11/23 David Kubečka <kubecka.dav@xxxxxxxxx>
>
>> Hello to all after a longer break...
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/17 David Davis <feline1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>> On a more general note to all the specifics below -
>>> would it be possible to add a Key to the flowcharts, just to explain the
>>> colour coding and abbreviations?
>>> I admit in only took my brain about 25 seconds to work out that, for
>>> instance, a green "AnK" meant "Animal Kinship required for this choice" ...
>>> but it is good practice to not even make me have to think for 25 seconds ;)
>>>
>>>
>> I have responded to Simon's similar note in my previous email but
>> apparently it got overlooked because of bad formatting done by my email
>> client. So once again: "Yeah, I definitely plan to make a legend somewhere.
>> I still don't know where to put it exactly. Separate legend for each book
>> or single centralized one? Any thoughts?
>> Also the abbreviations are not settled yet.."
>> For now I recognize three types of conditions in my flowchart: green ones
>> which mean some discpline is required, brown indicating you have to reach
>> certain level of Kai ranking and blue meaning some Special item is
>> required.
>> If some discpline is required as well as Kai rank it is printed in gree.
>> So "Div and 7+" in green means "If you have the Magnakai Discipline of
>> Divination and have reached the rank of Primate or higher...". Also there
>> is whole name of an item printed in blue in a node where you get this item.
>>
>> A now to what others said before... I am quite amazed how quickly Simon
>> and Jon responded to my issues and added proposed xml tags. That will
>> enable me to finally solve those sections with riddles. Just a small note
>> here:
>> if in "puzzle" element we have to have "idrefs" attribute for sections
>> linked to more answers I would use it even in the case of one answer
>> instead of "idref". That's just cleaner design which will simplify my code
>> little bit as well as make others much happier :-)
>>
>> I agree to all but one Simon's suggested changes concerning issues I
>> originally reported. In partcilular I would pick
>> > (er) 14tcok 276: mark it on your Action Chart as a Special Item which
>> you
>> > carry in your tunic pocket -> mark it on your Action Chart as a Backpack
>> > Item [so: Keys are always Backpack Items. Credit David Kubečka [DK] ]
>> instead of what Jon later suggested because, as I said before, the
>> problem with this is that you can take Green key once as Special item and
>> once as Backpack item. Moreover it isn't specified in the list of Special
>> item's you can bring to the next adventure so Simon's solution is really
>> only possible one.
>>
>> The issue I have changed my mind about is that concerning Sabito (or Vial
>> of Blue Pills). I quote here my original post which was quite hard to look
>> at :-)
>> "I think things are more complicated here. You can get some Sabito under
>> the
>> name 'Vial of Blue Pills' also in book no.7 section 227. In fact
>> situations
>> in 7/227 and 9/155 are almost the same: you find some items one of which
>> is
>> mysterious Vial of Blue Pills. If you have Healing you can 'identify the
>> nature of the Blue Pills', but even if you don't you can still take it
>> and
>> later use it without knowing exactly about its effects. That is quite
>> strange and moreover inconsistent with one similar situation I can think
>> of,
>> namely in 3/10 when you can examine several liquids but you cannot take
>> them
>> unless you identify their effects.
>> Therefore I think it should be the same case here. You find Vial of Blue
>> Pills but only when you have Healing you can take it as a dose of Sabito.
>> By
>> that name it should also be referred in choices, i.e. 'If you have a Vial
>> of
>> Blue Pills' -> 'If you have some Sabito'. That would also be consistent
>> with
>> later books which speak exclusively about Sabito."
>>
>> So that's all I have to say about what happened here previously (unless I
>> have forgotten something :-) ). Meanwhile I have finally added combat nodes
>> to my flowcharts. I have tried to handle nodes with more enemies nicely.
>> You can see the result in an attachment, this time of book no.2 where there
>> are up to 6 enemies in one section.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> *From:* David Kubečka <davidkubecka@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 11, 2012 6:15 PM
>>> *To:* projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> *Subject:* [projectaon] Re: Flowcharts
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> thanks for your reactions. I am sending another picture, this time from
>>> book no.3, where you can see more clearly how the sections where certain
>>> items are obtained are highlighted. Also, where the choice is dependent on
>>> possesion of an item it is there attached in an abbreviated form to the
>>> corresponding edge.
>>> I have of course seen your own flowcharts but I think the method you use
>>> to generate them (XSLT) doesn't scale. For instance what you can see on the
>>> attached picture would be quite difficult to do with XSLT, at least I don't
>>> know how to do it (but then I am no expert in that matter). Also any book
>>> which has riddles in it leads into disconnected components (as you can see
>>> with book no.5) because there is no choice explicitly mentioned in the
>>> section with riddle.
>>>
>>> This leads me to the first issue out of several which I have found when
>>> digging the information out of the XML source files.
>>> 1) There is some inconsistency about what XML tag is used for 'death
>>> paragraphs' - places in sections where Lone Wolf dies. Sometimes it is tag
>>> <p> and sometimes <choice>. Morever above mentioned sections with riddles
>>> usually (but not always) also use <choice> tag. That makes handling these
>>> exceptional sections quite hard to handle authomatically. I therefore
>>> suggest that there would be separate tag for each of these cases and its
>>> usage would be consistent throughout all books. Namely: <p> for normal
>>> text, <choice> only for text which references another section, <death> only
>>> for LW's deaths and <riddle> for various riddles, locks etc. The HTML form
>>> of the last three tags could be the same as it is now. That would make the
>>> whole design slightly cleaner as well as help me (or anyone else) parsing
>>> the source files.
>>>
>>> That was the issue which causes me most problems during my work. Others
>>> are not so serious and some of them can be solved quite easily.
>>> 2) In book 9 you can find Vial of Blue Pills and if you examine it
>>> closely the text on section 29 tells you "Record both doses of Sabito on
>>> your <a idref="action">Action Chart</a> as a single Backpack Item." But
>>> later on you are asked "If you have a Vial of Blue Pills, ...". I think
>>> this could be unified to mention Vial of Blue Pills on sect.29 as well.
>>> 3) On 11/146 LW can take Baylon<ch.apos/>s Bough Fungi but on 13/16 he
>>> is asked if he possesses Baylon<ch.apos/>s Fungi. Could that be unified as
>>> well?
>>> 4) 14/329 mentions Statue of Sl<ch.ucirc/>tar wheras evrywhere else it
>>> is referred to as Statuette of Sl<ch.ucirc/>tar.
>>> 5) Choice on 15/109 is conditioned by having a Green Key and only Green
>>> Key which LW can ever get is in two places in book 14. On sect.76 it is a
>>> backpack item and on sect.276 it is a special item. Moreover on 15/304 you
>>> are told "Quickly you take it [the key] from your Backpack,...". I doubt
>>> that those two keys in book 14 aren't the same items. Moreover I suspect
>>> the author have forgotten to let LW obtain the Green Key somewhere in book
>>> 15 because it seems highly improbable that one key could be used on so much
>>> geographically distant places.
>>> 6) On 18/277 LW finds "Pouch containing 2 Potions of Laumspur" but it is
>>> not mentioned what are its effects on Endurance Points which is otherwise
>>> always the case.
>>>
>>> I hope someone will go through these issues and assist me with their
>>> solution.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Původní zpráva ----------
>>> Od: Jonathan Blake <jonathan.blake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Datum: 1. 11. 2012
>>> Předmět: [projectaon] Re: Flowcharts
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 11:54 AM, David Kubečka <davidkubecka@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > few years ago I have sent to a Project Aon mailing list (not this one)
>>> few
>>> > examples of my work on graphs showing possible paths through a Lone
>>> Wolf
>>> > gamebook (flowcharts). I have abandoned this project at that time but
>>> now I
>>> > have returned to it and rewritten it in (I hope) a more readable and
>>> > scalable way. You can find an example of current state of art graph in
>>> the
>>> > attachment. It currently shows which disciplines and/or items you must
>>> have
>>> > in order to take particular choice. It is by no means definitive
>>> version
>>> > (missing 'combat nodes') and I have a few more ideas what else to
>>> include in
>>> > the graph (shortest path through a book, more items etc.).
>>> >
>>> > If you like my work I would be happy if you could some day publish it
>>> on
>>> > Project Aon website. I would also like if you suggested to me any
>>> > improvements or corrections. For those interested in the source code
>>> you can
>>> > find it on Github https://github.com/kejv/lw_flowchart.
>>> >
>>> > I'm looking forward to your repli es.
>>>
>>> Hey David. Great work! I'm assuming you've already seen our official
>>> versions.
>>>
>>> http://www.projectaon.org/en/svg/lw/01fftd.svgz
>>>
>>> I'd love to see these improved with some of your ideas like shortest
>>> path and required items.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jon
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~
>>> Manage your subscription at http://www.freelists.org/list/projectaon
>>>
>>> =
>>>
>>
>>
>
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