[projectaon] Re: Flowcharts
- From: David Kubečka <davidkubecka@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 19:31:32 +0100
Actually it turned out that I don't know how to make graphviz (specifically
dot) put a legend to the SVG file. If someone is better accustomed with it
let me know :-)
Until there's better solution I have made simple 20 line perl script which
outputs legend files which you can find in the attachement.
2012/11/24 David Davis <feline1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> I would say - put the legend on each flowchart (at the top) - there's
> plenty of space, and it saves people having to go looking for it.
>
> *From:* David Kubečka <davidkubecka@xxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 24, 2012 8:52 AM
> *To:* projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [projectaon] Re: Flowcharts
>
>
> I have by mistake used my adress not subscribed to this mailing list. You
> should still get my email because it appeared on a list archive.
>
> Sorry for confusion (if any)...
>
> David
>
> 2012/11/23 David Kubečka <kubecka.dav@xxxxxxxxx>
>
>> And here is the promised flowchart...
>>
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/23 David Kubečka <kubecka.dav@xxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>> Hello to all after a longer break...
>>>
>>>
>>> 2012/11/17 David Davis <feline1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>
>>>> On a more general note to all the specifics below -
>>>> would it be possible to add a Key to the flowcharts, just to explain
>>>> the colour coding and abbreviations?
>>>> I admit in only took my brain about 25 seconds to work out that, for
>>>> instance, a green "AnK" meant "Animal Kinship required for this choice" ...
>>>> but it is good practice to not even make me have to think for 25 seconds ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I have responded to Simon's similar note in my previous email but
>>> apparently it got overlooked because of bad formatting done by my email
>>> client. So once again: "Yeah, I definitely plan to make a legend somewhere.
>>> I still don't know where to put it exactly. Separate legend for each book
>>> or single centralized one? Any thoughts?
>>> Also the abbreviations are not settled yet.."
>>> For now I recognize three types of conditions in my flowchart: green
>>> ones which mean some discpline is required, brown indicating you have to
>>> reach certain level of Kai ranking and blue meaning some Special item is
>>> required.
>>> If some discpline is required as well as Kai rank it is printed in gree.
>>> So "Div and 7+" in green means "If you have the Magnakai Discipline of
>>> Divination and have reached the rank of Primate or higher...". Also there
>>> is whole name of an item printed in blue in a node where you get this item.
>>>
>>> A now to what others said before... I am quite amazed how quickly Simon
>>> and Jon responded to my issues and added proposed xml tags. That will
>>> enable me to finally solve those sections with riddles. Just a small note
>>> here:
>>> if in "puzzle" element we have to have "idrefs" attribute for sections
>>> linked to more answers I would use it even in the case of one answer
>>> instead of "idref". That's just cleaner design which will simplify my code
>>> little bit as well as make others much happier :-)
>>>
>>> I agree to all but one Simon's suggested changes concerning issues I
>>> originally reported. In partcilular I would pick
>>> > (er) 14tcok 276: mark it on your Action Chart as a Special Item which
>>> you
>>> > carry in your tunic pocket -> mark it on your Action Chart as a
>>> Backpack
>>> > Item [so: Keys are always Backpack Items. Credit David Kubečka [DK] ]
>>> instead of what Jon later suggested because, as I said before, the
>>> problem with this is that you can take Green key once as Special item and
>>> once as Backpack item. Moreover it isn't specified in the list of Special
>>> item's you can bring to the next adventure so Simon's solution is really
>>> only possible one.
>>>
>>> The issue I have changed my mind about is that concerning Sabito (or
>>> Vial of Blue Pills). I quote here my original post which was quite hard to
>>> look at :-)
>>> "I think things are more complicated here. You can get some Sabito under
>>> the
>>> name 'Vial of Blue Pills' also in book no.7 section 227. In fact
>>> situations
>>> in 7/227 and 9/155 are almost the same: you find some items one of which
>>> is
>>> mysterious Vial of Blue Pills. If you have Healing you can 'identify the
>>> nature of the Blue Pills', but even if you don't you can still take it
>>> and
>>> later use it without knowing exactly about its effects. That is quite
>>> strange and moreover inconsistent with one similar situation I can think
>>> of,
>>> namely in 3/10 when you can examine several liquids but you cannot take
>>> them
>>> unless you identify their effects.
>>> Therefore I think it should be the same case here. You find Vial of Blue
>>> Pills but only when you have Healing you can take it as a dose of
>>> Sabito. By
>>> that name it should also be referred in choices, i.e. 'If you have a
>>> Vial of
>>> Blue Pills' -> 'If you have some Sabito'. That would also be consistent
>>> with
>>> later books which speak exclusively about Sabito."
>>>
>>> So that's all I have to say about what happened here previously (unless
>>> I have forgotten something :-) ). Meanwhile I have finally added combat
>>> nodes to my flowcharts. I have tried to handle nodes with more enemies
>>> nicely. You can see the result in an attachment, this time of book no.2
>>> where there are up to 6 enemies in one section.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> *From:* David Kubečka <davidkubecka@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 11, 2012 6:15 PM
>>>> *To:* projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> *Subject:* [projectaon] Re: Flowcharts
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> thanks for your reactions. I am sending another picture, this time from
>>>> book no.3, where you can see more clearly how the sections where certain
>>>> items are obtained are highlighted. Also, where the choice is dependent on
>>>> possesion of an item it is there attached in an abbreviated form to the
>>>> corresponding edge.
>>>> I have of course seen your own flowcharts but I think the method you
>>>> use to generate them (XSLT) doesn't scale. For instance what you can see on
>>>> the attached picture would be quite difficult to do with XSLT, at least I
>>>> don't know how to do it (but then I am no expert in that matter). Also any
>>>> book which has riddles in it leads into disconnected components (as you can
>>>> see with book no.5) because there is no choice explicitly mentioned in the
>>>> section with riddle.
>>>>
>>>> This leads me to the first issue out of several which I have found when
>>>> digging the information out of the XML source files.
>>>> 1) There is some inconsistency about what XML tag is used for 'death
>>>> paragraphs' - places in sections where Lone Wolf dies. Sometimes it is tag
>>>> <p> and sometimes <choice>. Morever above mentioned sections with riddles
>>>> usually (but not always) also use <choice> tag. That makes handling these
>>>> exceptional sections quite hard to handle authomatically. I therefore
>>>> suggest that there would be separate tag for each of these cases and its
>>>> usage would be consistent throughout all books. Namely: <p> for normal
>>>> text, <choice> only for text which references another section, <death> only
>>>> for LW's deaths and <riddle> for various riddles, locks etc. The HTML form
>>>> of the last three tags could be the same as it is now. That would make the
>>>> whole design slightly cleaner as well as help me (or anyone else) parsing
>>>> the source files.
>>>>
>>>> That was the issue which causes me most problems during my work. Others
>>>> are not so serious and some of them can be solved quite easily.
>>>> 2) In book 9 you can find Vial of Blue Pills and if you examine it
>>>> closely the text on section 29 tells you "Record both doses of Sabito on
>>>> your <a idref="action">Action Chart</a> as a single Backpack Item." But
>>>> later on you are asked "If you have a Vial of Blue Pills, ...". I think
>>>> this could be unified to mention Vial of Blue Pills on sect.29 as well.
>>>> 3) On 11/146 LW can take Baylon<ch.apos/>s Bough Fungi but on 13/16 he
>>>> is asked if he possesses Baylon<ch.apos/>s Fungi. Could that be unified as
>>>> well?
>>>> 4) 14/329 mentions Statue of Sl<ch.ucirc/>tar wheras evrywhere else it
>>>> is referred to as Statuette of Sl<ch.ucirc/>tar.
>>>> 5) Choice on 15/109 is conditioned by having a Green Key and only Green
>>>> Key which LW can ever get is in two places in book 14. On sect.76 it is a
>>>> backpack item and on sect.276 it is a special item. Moreover on 15/304 you
>>>> are told "Quickly you take it [the key] from your Backpack,...". I doubt
>>>> that those two keys in book 14 aren't the same items. Moreover I suspect
>>>> the author have forgotten to let LW obtain the Green Key somewhere in book
>>>> 15 because it seems highly improbable that one key could be used on so much
>>>> geographically distant places.
>>>> 6) On 18/277 LW finds "Pouch containing 2 Potions of Laumspur" but it
>>>> is not mentioned what are its effects on Endurance Points which is
>>>> otherwise always the case.
>>>>
>>>> I hope someone will go through these issues and assist me with their
>>>> solution.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Původní zpráva ----------
>>>> Od: Jonathan Blake <jonathan.blake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Datum: 1. 11. 2012
>>>> Předmět: [projectaon] Re: Flowcharts
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 11:54 AM, David Kubečka <davidkubecka@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > few years ago I have sent to a Project Aon mailing list (not this
>>>> one) few
>>>> > examples of my work on graphs showing possible paths through a Lone
>>>> Wolf
>>>> > gamebook (flowcharts). I have abandoned this project at that time but
>>>> now I
>>>> > have returned to it and rewritten it in (I hope) a more readable and
>>>> > scalable way. You can find an example of current state of art graph
>>>> in the
>>>> > attachment. It currently shows which disciplines and/or items you
>>>> must have
>>>> > in order to take particular choice. It is by no means definitive
>>>> version
>>>> > (missing 'combat nodes') and I have a few more ideas what else to
>>>> include in
>>>> > the graph (shortest path through a book, more items etc.).
>>>> >
>>>> > If you like my work I would be happy if you could some day publish it
>>>> on
>>>> > Project Aon website. I would also like if you suggested to me any
>>>> > improvements or corrections. For those interested in the source code
>>>> you can
>>>> > find it on Github https://github.com/kejv/lw_flowchart.
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm looking forward to your repli es.
>>>>
>>>> Hey David. Great work! I'm assuming you've already seen our official
>>>> versions.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.projectaon.org/en/svg/lw/01fftd.svgz
>>>>
>>>> I'd love to see these improved with some of your ideas like shortest
>>>> path and required items.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jon
>>>>
>>>> ~~~~~~
>>>> Manage your subscription at http://www.freelists.org/list/projectaon
>>>>
>>>> =
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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