[AR] Re: FW: [NASA HQ News] March 19 Administrator Statement on Agency Response to Coronavirus

  • From: Ivan Vuletich <ivan.vuletich@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, Henry Vanderbilt <hvanderbilt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2020 16:03:55 +1100

On a more somber note, the actual death rate could be as high as 5.6 - 15%.

According to this paper to properly calculate the mortality rate you have to account for the incubation period, which is assumed to be 14 days, so that mortality rate has to be calculated using the infection rate 14 days prior.

https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S1473-3099%2820%2930195-X

Ivan

On 21/03/2020 13:14, Henry Vanderbilt wrote:

Bill,

R0 estimates vary all over the place.  And the actual value of course is going to vary with local customs and practices, as modified by local containment measures.  Probably futile trying to estimate R0 now; it's something you figure out after the dust has settled.

One data point on how far this thing spreads in a given population, albeit far from a pure one: 3700 people total on Diamond Princess, all tested, current near-final positive count 712, for about 20% total infected.

Now, initially the spread on Diamond Princess was uncontained. Then, there was a disorganized incompetent attempt to contain it.  Then the continuing flow of new infections scared them into getting competent.  So it's definitely not any strong indication of where herd immunity would become effective in an uncontained spread.

I suspect it is, however, a decent approximation of the likely sequence in your average densely populated US city with an incompetent political-hack local government.  Uncontained, then incompetently contained, then hugely scary results, then competently contained.  If only because the state and/or the Feds step in.

Places that are well-enough run to skip the middle two steps will see a lot fewer overall cases, I suspect.

Places that are badly enough run that they can't reach step 4 on their own are in for a really rough ride.  (NYC now is at step 3 - known infections increasing at ~70%/day - and the Mayor is apparently not taking advice.)

A place that averages the same total 20% spread as Diamond Princess and /doesn't/ run out of Respiratory ICU beds should see about 200 deaths per 100,000 population.  (~5% of infectees will need a ventilator, ~4 out of 5 of those will then be saved by the ICU treatment.)  A place that does run out of RICU beds - US average is about 50 such beds per 100,000 population - could see up to 1000 deaths per 100,000.  (More, of course, if total spread ends up higher than 20%.)

~50 beds per 100,000 of us should make it abundantly clear why containment measures sufficient to time-spread the infections peak a LOT are very important.  (Current initiatives might in time raise that to 60 or 70 beds.  One of the major bottlenecks is years-trained personnel.)  Entirely aside from such containment measures buying time for effective acute-case treatments (another month at best, more likely a few months) and a vaccine (likely a year or more) to arrive.

Henry

On 3/20/2020 6:30 PM, William Claybaugh wrote:
John:

After looking—again—I am not able to find the source for you assertion that R0 is between 1.5 and 3.0.  From where are you getting these numbers?

Note that because some localities will not Institute quarantine, it follows—given exponential growth of infection—that w/i no more than a few months we will have natural experiments that accurately measure whether herd immunity is achieved at as little as 30% infection.

Today, I remain unaware of data indicating that R0 is not comparable to smallpox, but definitely open to new data.

Bill

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 5:01 PM John Schilling <john.schilling@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:john.schilling@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

    On 3/19/2020 7:32 PM, William Claybaugh wrote:

    For herd immunity, you only need 1-(1/R0) of the population to
    have had it, which means you'd need an R0 of 10 to infect 90% of
    the population.  R0 estimates for COVID-19 range from 1.5 - 3.0,
    so 35-55% of the population, not 90%.

    And that's for doing absolutely nothing. Long-term, public health
    measures like contact tracing and behavioral changes like more
    handwashing will knock R0 down from that initial 1.5-3.0 range. 
    If it goes below 1.0, and the virus is reduced to sporadic
    outbreaks without needing herd immunity.

    90% of the human population being infected is an innumerate
    paranoid fantasy, and we don't need those right now.

            John Schilling


    Anthony:

    It will undoubtedly pass but not until about 90% of the human
    population has had it and survived (herd immunity) or until a
    similar fraction has had some combination of having had it or
    had a vaccination.

    Given pressure, the usual 18 months to get a safe vaccine might
    be reduced to 15 months; assuming 6 months more to vaccinate
    everyone who hasn’t had it, I get an optimistic 18 months before
    this is over, locally.

    When the Chinese back off of their current quarantine, look for
    a second wave of infections to follow: less than 1% of the
    Chinese population is now immune from having had it and survived.

    Bill

    On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 7:18 PM Anthony Cesaroni
    <anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

        Next year. This will pass.

        Anthony J. Cesaroni

        President/CEO

        Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace

        _http://www.cesaronitech.com/_
        
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.cesaronitech.com/__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!5yiCjInjp8q0cKofOb6VvxMUWMTcHVRCGwzyWf433sKIjag2wKBewNFi30PsGCAMRauR6dXccg$>

        (941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota

        (905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto

        *From:* Hqnews <hqnews-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:hqnews-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On Behalf Of
        *NASA News Releases
        *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 7:53 PM
        *To:* hqnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:hqnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        *Subject:* [NASA HQ News] March 19 Administrator Statement
        on Agency Response to Coronavirus

                

        March 19, 2020
        RELEASE 20-030
        *March 19 Administrator Statement on Agency Response to
        Coronavirus*

        The following is a statement from NASA Administrator Jim
        Bridenstine:

        “NASA leadership is determined to make the health and safety
        of its workforce its top priority as we navigate the
        coronavirus (COVID-19) situation. To that end, the
        agency’s Michoud Assembly Facility and Stennis Space Center
        are moving to Stage 4 of the NASA Response Framework
        
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nasapeople.nasa.gov/coronavirus/nasa_response_framework.pdf__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!5yiCjInjp8q0cKofOb6VvxMUWMTcHVRCGwzyWf433sKIjag2wKBewNFi30PsGCAMRaszeieK2w$>,
 effective
        Friday, March 20.

        “The change at Stennis was made due to the rising number of
        COVID-19 cases in the community around the center, the
        number of self-isolation cases within our workforce there,
        and one confirmed case among our Stennis team.  While
        there are no confirmed cases at Michoud, the facility is
        moving to Stage 4 due to the rising number of COVID-19 cases
        in the local area, in accordance with local and federal
        guidelines.

        “Mandatory telework is in effect for NASA personnel at both
        facilities until further notice. Additionally, all travel is
        suspended. These measures are being taken to help slow the
        transmission of COVID-19 and protect our communities.

        “Access to Stennis and Michoud will be limited to personnel
        required to maintain the safety and security of the center,
        as approved by agency leadership and the resident agencies.
        All previously approved exceptions for onsite work are
        rescinded and new approvals will be required in order to
        gain access to the center.

        “NASA will temporarily suspend production and testing of
        Space Launch System and Orion hardware. The NASA and
        contractors teams will complete an orderly shutdown that
        puts all hardware in a safe condition until work can resume.
        Once this is complete, personnel allowed onsite will be
        limited to those needed to protect life and critical
        infrastructure.

        “We realize there will be impacts to NASA missions, but as
        our teams work to analyze the full picture and reduce risks
        we understand that our top priority is the health and safety
        of the NASA workforce.

        “I ask all members of the NASA workforce to stay in close
        contact with your supervisor and check the NASA People
        
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nasapeople.nasa.gov/coronavirus/__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!5yiCjInjp8q0cKofOb6VvxMUWMTcHVRCGwzyWf433sKIjag2wKBewNFi30PsGCAMRauMcIVcFQ$>website
        regularly for updates. Also, in these difficult times, do
        not hesitate to reach out to the NASA Employee Assistance
        Program
        
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nasa.gov/offices/ochmo/divisions/health_medsys/eap_info.html__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!5yiCjInjp8q0cKofOb6VvxMUWMTcHVRCGwzyWf433sKIjag2wKBewNFi30PsGCAMRavZNH1vRA$>,
        if needed.

        “I will continue to say, so none of us forget – there is no
        team better prepared for doing hard things. Take care of
        yourself, your family, and your NASA team.”

        -end-

                

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